True Spirituality YouTube Channel
A reddit user by the name of OgreSlugBeast posted a video he’d made on /r/FACIM (a subreddit I happen to run). I found the video fascinating, and commented so. Then, intrigued, I watched some earlier videos and fell in love with the guy.
As I began investigating the specialness in my love, I found words to say to him, which sparked an unexpected conversation.
Watching videos on your channel
I love you.
I love you ❤️ 🕊️
How about now?
Haha, of course. Why ask that in relation to your site?
I have a special love relationship with you. My aim is to kill it with as little thought/effort and as few words as possible. I start with the low hanging fruit: my website is enough to get many people over any love they had for me. The special love bargain broken, they reveal something of themselves that helps me get over my (special) love for them.
Haha. Hmm, well, according to you you want to do this with as few words as possible, so I don’t want to press you on this too much. Your website was not enough for me to get over my love for you. I love you for who you are on the inside. It’s also not a special love. If you want to talk about it more, though, I’m here.
you want to do this with as few words as possible
Only because more words take more time and make more specialness to undo, which takes more time. I’ll use as many words and as much time as are needed to get the job done/to complete my relationship with you.
Your website was not enough for me to get over my love for you.
I’ll just keep coming at you then. I want your email address.
It’s also not a special love.
They all say that.
Well hang on 😂 why do you think this is special love? And if you want to forgive any specialness we might feel towards eachother, I don’t think trying to get me to “dislike” you is the way.
If I’m correct in my assumption that that’s what you’re trying to do.
why do you think this is special love?
Without specialness, there’s no reason to speak of love.
Non-specific love is better shown than told.
Why would I try to get you to dislike me? How you feel about me is of no consequence. How I feel about you is all that concerns me.
I could indeed give up the specialness without a word to you. Good advice. Thank you.
You can still speak of it, I mean there’s no real reason to speak of anything, or to do anything, but we still do. ( Or believe we do ;) ) If speaking of your love helps reinforce the idea that we’re not separate, what’s the harm? That’s not necessarily what makes it special or not.
I just had the feeling that’s what you were getting at. Saying that looking at your website or having my email might get rid of any love I have for you.
And yes, you’re right, you can do all that without a word. It’s all in the mind, after all. Let me know if I can be of any further help or anything at all.
I speak only to reveal my specialness, thereby facilitating forgiveness and celebration (the undoing of special hate and special love respectively). I wear the ego like a set of clothes, on the outside, for all the world to see. Affording it no protection.
Yes, I wear down the ego by rubbing it in everyone’s faces. Well, everyone who claims to be ready to forgive anything - my kind of people.
I’m now into special hate :D
Where celebration ends and forgiveness begins.
Haha, okay. I see.
What’s your name, brother?
My current mantra of “I wish perfect happiness for Ogre Slug Beast” is a little long winded.
Oh, too slow. I’ve completed my forgiveness run. I’d still like to know your name, for next time.
So now I’ve gotten though that hate layer I’m down to a deeper, purer love layer that’s quite delicious.
I was going to say something (that’s when I realised I’d forgiven) oh yes. Something about Holy Relationships. That I want one with you. That sounds very silly when I say it out loud. I guess that’s the point of saying it out loud.
I have many very Holy Relationships. In a way they all are, but the learning is more intense with some than with others.
Yeah, now I’m really embarrassing myself.
note: this message arrived before I sent the one above, but I didn't see it till afterwards.
Dalton, and yours?
Thanks. My name is Freyr.
Well, nice to “officially” make your acquaintance, Freyr.
Holy relationship? With you? 😎 Sounds good to me. I’m up for it.
To clarify, a Holy Relationship is one whose purpose has been given over entirely to healing/learning.
I think a lot of Course students hear ‘Holy Relationship’ and unconsciously all they are doing is making an even more special, special love relationship. Same as they do with the ‘Holy Spirit’. I had this attitude myself and did not know it.
Laying specialness aside, I’ve found a whole new way to relate to people, that better facilitates learning. And increasingly I practise it with everyone. I do not need anyone to be aware of it in order for it to work. But if they understand and if they share the same intention (to use the relationship for their own learning and healing and nothing else) then it tends to have an accelerating effect.
There’s a conversation I want you to read. Actually I thought about asking you to read it earlier in this conversation, but it wasn’t time. It’s an email conversation between myself and the folks at the School for A Course in Miracles. It should give some background and show some potential pitfalls, and depending on your response to that I may have more confidence about how to proceed.
I think this post might also be worth a read, as it gives some indication of where I’m at in my journey. Though that’s over a year ago and things have evolved a lot since then. Actually probably best to read this one first as it’s 6 months before the SFACIM one.
Hey Freyr, so I read both of them in the order that you recommended. I found them very interesting. I love hearing stuff like that. I especially found the e-mails interesting. I mean how often do you get to read that kind of thing? Haha. First off, I wanna say, no matter what judgements you have of me.. where you think I’m at.. etc, I’m not gonna quit responding or ditch ya. When I said I love you, it wasn’t based off your person hood or personality, it was based on the spirit that I’ve seen in others before ( now when I say others, you have to realize I’m using that word for the sale of conversation/explanatory purposes, not that I’m saying they are other than you, let’s both make a promise not to get caught up in semantics during our discourse, and I say that not because I think you will specifically, but because I know how these things can go) so continuing with my point, I’ve seen this pure spirit, in myself, in others, underneath all the ego that we show on the surface, and this spirit – I love. It’s beautiful. It loves, it wants to be loved, and it can also be afraid. (Again, semantics, it can be afraid IN the illusion)
Let me also say this, I’m not passing myself off as some kind of master, so let’s not try and make distinctions between who is “farther along” on their journey or closer to the truth, or whatever. If I had 100% let go of my ego, I wouldn’t be “here” right now. The same goes for all of us on this “path”.
I imagine you have some judgments of me, is that correct? Do you wanna lay em out on the table? Maybe you don’t. What do you think? How do you want to proceed?
I prefer to share any judgements I find, by email. Because there’s a drafts feature/I can switch devices.
email address removed from published version
I especially found the e-mails interesting.
In that case there’s a tag just for you.
My blog is intended for a fairly niche audience
I’m not gonna quit responding or ditch ya
I don’t believe you, of course.
I’ll ditch ya as soon as I can. I just find it impossible to ditch someone until I’ve finished exploiting any learning opportunities they offer me. I’ve actually ditched you several times. But then you reply and give me more learning opportunities.
I mean, it’s all your fault really. You made such clear videos. How could I have responded otherwise?! Though I was not the intended audience, your allegiance to the same teacher, really comes through.
and this spirit – I love. It’s beautiful. It loves, it wants to be loved, and it can also be afraid
I hear specialness in this story. It’s very subtle. Having undone so much, I am much more sensitive to specialness. More sensitive to the slightest grievance. The smallest grain of sand is like a mountain. Not sure how helpful it is to tell you what I see. I could just say “is that so?” and move on.
Of course, my seeing specialness in the love you talk about, is just a reflection of my own study of specialness in myself.
The opposite of holiness is specialness. Selectivity. In Zen it’s called ‘picking and choosing’. We love some things and fear others. Without specialness there’s no beauty.
let’s both make a promise not to get caught up in semantics during our discourse
I make no promises. The activities of future Freyr are none of my business.
I guess that ‘getting caught up in semantics’ is something you need to learn not to do?
I know how these things can go
Is that so?
That sounds like a grievance to me. Want to talk about it?
I do not know how these things can go. I do not even know what ‘these things’ are.
let’s not try and make distinctions between who is “farther along” on their journey
I am. (I assume)
closer to the truth
There’s no such thing. Like you said in one of your videos, the journey itself is an illusion.
I’m not passing myself off as some kind of master
I’m teetering on the edge of the fourth of the stages described in the Development of Trust, “a period of settling down”. My attitude is more and more reminiscent of those ancient Chinese masters. So it’s clear (to me and those who know me well) that I’ve come far. But it also feels like just the beginning and I haven’t really learned anything yet!
Stage 4 says “He has not yet come as far as he thinks.” Well duh.
I have taken to heart, that thing in The Disappearance of the Universe (which I assume from your videos that you have read): “The biggest advances are not made by being a great teacher; they are made by being a great student.”
So I treat everyone as disposable learning opportunities.
Are you sure you’re communicating honestly here, Freyr? If I’m a learning opportunity for you, then I would try to teach you by asking you to re-read what you sent. What does it say to you? What is the purpose in your words?
If you don’t learn anything there, or even if you do, let’s start with your assumption that you are farther along on your journey than me. Can you sum up (as briefly as possible) why you think that?
If I’m a learning opportunity for you, then I would try to teach you
How wonderful. I think this is what makes us different. I don’t try to teach anyone, even if they beg to be taught by me. Other people’s learning is not my business. I do not know what is best for me so how could I possibly know what’s best for anyone else.
Sometimes I seem to take on the role of a teacher, but it’s really just a learning experience for me, and once I’ve learned what I need to learn from it, I stop.
Perhaps that is what you are doing now. Or do you sincerely believe that I need your help and would be lost without your guidance?
let’s start with your assumption that you are farther along on your journey than me.
Sounds good. What are the implications of this? What thoughts and feelings arise for you?
You’re skipping over my question, Freyr, and still not being honest. Why do you think you’re farther along?
I’m going to sleep, Freyr, so I won’t be able to respond for a good 8 hours. To actually put the concepts we learn from acim into practice we have to be honest. If we can’t do that, what’s the point? Your ego will convince you that we’re different, but we’re not. It will convince you that you’re farther along than everyone else as well. This is because it doesn’t actually want you to begin confronting it in earnest. Do you want that? What were you looking for when you started this conversation? When you asked for a holy relationship and a learning opportunity? To prove that we’re different? If so, you are choosing the wrong teacher. You have two teachers to choose from, Freyr, the ego or the holy spirit. You may be more comfortable with the lessons of the ego but they won’t make you happy. Remember also that no matter how long you delay beginning the steps, the end result is the same and inevitable.
I want to publish this conversation verbatim as a blog post.
I’ll let you be the judge of that.
Awesome. Very accurate reproduction of our conversation.
Better learning opportunities have become available, so I’ll forget you exist now. Thank you for everything.