Freyr LePage

Consultation

Initial consultation: £300 ($400)†
Subsequent consultations: free

†should you find me in the wild, you may show your trust with a sincere bow, but on the internet, nothing communicates trust like money does.

Pay with GBP
Pay with USD

Example dialogue

Imported from an online forum for discussing The Work of Byron Katie. I didn’t plan this, but now I see it’s a perfect example (though perhaps more casual than a paid, private consultation is likely to be).

ExtraMedium2016 asks:

Disclaimer: The Work has changed my life for the better. I’m convinced it will be part of my life in some form forever. I think Byron Katie is a magical creature and I am grateful for her dedication to The Work. All judgements of her I know are really judgements on myself. These are thoughts that I have been believing. I wanted to share and see if anyone has felt this, and if anyone has feedback.

1) BK manipulates people into seeing things as she does.
2) BK can’t just let people be themselves without forcing them to get sidetracked with inquiry. It’s all about her and her path.
3) BK wants to be seen as a savior for the lost people, but she has no way of knowing that she’s any further along than anyone else.
4) BK is hard to impress.
5) BK is so focused on the work that she can’t be casual and carefree.
6) BK doesn’t tolerate imperfection.
7) BK is looking for suffering in others so she can boost her own ego in helping them.
8) How does she know she is helping anyone?
9) BK doesn’t validate anyone’s experience. She thinks it’s all forgettable.
10) The Work is an unnatural, scripted dialogue with an expected outcome based on a consistent formula that works out by design.
11) It’s easy to be so carefree when you don’t have to actually be in the situation and dealing with people trying to harm you. Responding is easy when people expect you to be a guru. What if people expect you to be a fuckup?
12) BK is completely unapologetic about her selfishness.

I may think of more, but this is what keeps me from taking this out of my head and into my family and the world, talking about it with others, sharing it when I see someone suffering.

It’s obvious that some of these are clearly true and reasons why The Work is so appealing.

Mostly I put this here because I know it’s why I can’t go out and live it and share it. I have these judgements of myself. I also want to add that I have so much work to do on myself and my sense of superiority. I’m afraid of using the work as a tool to show others I am further along than they are. “ExtraMedium, you hurt me.” “Oh yeah? Is it true?” BAM, I dont have to take accountability. Or, you know, just forcing people to look at turnarounds when they don’t even know what the hell I’m talking about.

Thank you to anyone that read this!

Freyr replies:

Context: the work has been alive in me for 15 years. I’ve only recently started to see ‘flaws’ in Katie’s approach.

I had a few judgements of Katie, some of them the same as you, some different. The resolution for me was something like: Katie is playing her part perfectly, doing exactly what she should be doing, but I don’t want to do what she’s doing, I want to do something different.

I used to look up to Katie. I put her on a pedestal. I thought I wanted to be just like her. Now I see that I don’t. I want to be just like me. But that doesn’t mean Katie is wrong to be like Katie is.

1) BK manipulates people into seeing things as she does.

I’ve found, less manipulative ways of dealing with people. I actually avoid questions. But some people need to be manipulated in order to learn, and they go to Katie for the privilege of being manipulated in a way that will undo their story and set them free.

2) BK can’t just let people be themselves without forcing them to get sidetracked with inquiry. It’s all about her and her path.

I see now, you’re hiding all the “should”s. Without should, there is no problem and no work to do.

she has no way of knowing that she’s any further along than anyone else.

I’m sure she’d be the first to tell you this. Again, where’s the problem? Where’s the should?

4) BK is hard to impress.

Is that bad?

5) BK is so focused on the work that she can’t be casual and carefree.

Again, where’s the should?

8) How does she know she is helping anyone?

If she’s like me, then she doesn’t. She’s just helping herself. She’s just using everyone else to help her. You got a problem with that? And right now I have no idea if this is helpful to you. I’m just using you to help myself.

9) BK doesn’t validate anyone’s experience. She thinks it’s all forgettable.

Well, I see as she does. It is all forgettable. What’s the problem? Do you think I should believe your stories? Do you think I should believe as you do, that your suffering is more than just a story?

10) The Work is an unnatural, scripted dialogue with an expected outcome based on a consistent formula that works out by design.

I agree. Again, what’s the should?

Personally, I like to go unscripted. Like this conversation with you, is like the work, but it’s unscripted. It’s just a conversation. The result will always be peace for me. Whether the result of this conversation is peace for you, doesn’t matter to me. That’s your business.

11) It’s easy to be so carefree -

I thought you just said she wasn’t carefree.

What if people expect you to be a fuckup?

Do the work on “people expect me to be a fuckup”.

Do you expect Katie to be a fuckup?

12) BK is completely unapologetic about her selfishness.

Yeah me too. Do you think me and Katie should apologise for caring about ourselves? Or do you think we should get out of our business and start being in yours, trying to fix you? Isn’t that exactly what you were complaining about a few judgements ago? You can’t have it both ways.

this is what keeps me from taking this out of my head and into my family and the world, talking about it with others, sharing it when I see someone suffering.

Yeah, the work and things like it are offensive to society. It’s not for them. The only question that matters is, is it for you?

Do you have a belief that what’s good for you will be good for others? Or that you should share solutions that work? Took me a long time to get over that one. Proselytising is a trap I still fall into sometimes.

How about, when you see someone suffering, don’t mention the work at all, just do the work yourself on them and their suffering.

I have so much work to do on myself and my sense of superiority.

How wonderful. That’s a beautiful journey.

“ExtraMedium, you hurt me.” “Oh yeah? Is it true?”

Oh yes, it’s weaponisable. Personally, when people accuse me of hurting them I leave them alone. That way I don’t have to be responsible for how they feel, and I’m no longer there as an apparent cause for their hurt. I’ve actually abandoned almost everyone in this way. Except those who would never blame me for how they feel.

Or, you know, just forcing people to look at turnarounds when they don’t even know what the hell I’m talking about.

Sometimes I say “I don’t believe you”. There’s a whole art to dealing with people who aren’t doing this work (or ACIM, Radical Honesty, Zen, whatever), that’s rarely discussed. But it’s all built on “don’t try to fix anyone else - do the work yourself”.

ExtraMedium2016 says:

Holy smokes. Thank you! It took me a few days to respond. But I’m glad I waited until I had plenty of time.

I see now, you’re hiding all the “should”s. Without should, there is no problem and no work to do.

Oh yes. Ok that makes sense to me. It is hard to find it sometimes. It’s easy as a beginner to get twisted up in stating things as a fact, like I know something.

For #3 through #5: She should be carefree; she should be easier to impress, she should show that she is impressed with the person, etc. Of course it’s not true. And I do drag myself through the mud to be those things when I don’t genuinely feel it.

If she’s like me, then she doesn’t. She’s just helping herself. She’s just using everyone else to help her. You got a problem with that? And right now I have no idea if this is helpful to you. I’m just using you to help myself.

This I just do not understand. I’ve been living your typical nice person life my whole life, revolving around putting myself through all kinds of things to make others more comfortable. I feel like I’d have to get a brain transplant to not feel shameful saying I’m using someone to help myself. I mean, as the one being used, it doesn’t feel painful to me. But I see how if you felt as I do, that you have an obligation to help others before yourself, that I could use that and get you to put me before yourself and then spare me whatever hard work I needed to do! Sorry, going down a rabbit hole there. But I see how some dynamics in my life have been going, and how deeply intertwined I’ve allowed my business to get with others and calling it “intimacy” or “trust”. Ew. Anyway, clearly this is a big one for me to explore.

9) BK doesn’t validate anyone’s experience. She thinks it’s all forgettable.

Well, I see as she does. It is all forgettable. What’s the problem? Do you think I should believe your stories? Do you think I should believe as you do, that your suffering is more than just a story?

I hear you and appreciate how straight forward you are. To play devil’s advocate (and how I’d respond if you were a friend I am going to with a problem), it sounds dismissive to say that something that is actually very deep and important to me is just a story. Then I imagine you would say back “It would be dismissive of me to go along with the story if I don’t believe it.” Or maybe that’s just what I think when I’m not arguing with myself. Although, I wish I could say that in a loving way instead of the dismissive way I feel when I think it.

10) The Work is an unnatural, scripted dialogue with an expected outcome based on a consistent formula that works out by design.

I agree. Again, what’s the should?

This one made me annoyed and peaceful at the same time. :) Doing the work on this one statement, saying it is true doesn’t make me feel particularly stressed. Neither do the turnarounds on it. It isn’t scripted. It is natural. All words are unnatural, so it’s also not natural. So, ok, and? I mean, I guess there it is and I’m actually fine with it. Just believing I wasn’t for some reason.

Personally, I like to go unscripted. Like this conversation with you, is like the work, but it’s unscripted. It’s just a conversation. The result will always be peace for me. Whether the result of this conversation is peace for you, doesn’t matter to me. That’s your business.

But then how do you decide when it’s time to leave someone alone as you stated below. Don’t you have to make a judgement on whether or not it is peace for them and then if they are stressed because of you, you decide to leave them alone? People don’t always say how they feel. We are good at hiding our feelings, how do you determine how people feel without it mattering to you or making it your business? I’m guessing the answer is to do the work on it :)

What if people expect you to be a fuckup?

Do the work on “people expect me to be a fuckup”.
Do you expect Katie to be a fuckup?

Huh. I suppose I do in judging her in a lot of these ways. There is a lot to this.

12) BK is completely unapologetic about her selfishness.

Yeah me too. Do you think me and Katie should apologise for caring about ourselves? Or do you think we should get out of our business and start being in yours, trying to fix you? Isn’t that exactly what you were complaining about a few judgements ago? You can’t have it both ways.

So alright, this is kind of the crux of it for me right here. This one felt juicy as I was writing it. I have such a hard time with defensiveness. To say your words for myself feels defensive. I know you are right. I know it’s true. That’s the difference, right? Between just being defensive and being honest, which may be defensive and it may not be who cares. But you can rest in it and you can respond that way because it’s true and you don’t leave it up to me to…. This is where I get lost. I feel like I’m constantly seeking validation from others on my thoughts, and I don’t know what the alternative is. Perhaps it’s not one “right” thing that I’m trying to find, but just endless possibilities instead of making choices that stress me out in the name of not being selfish. I hope you followed that. Coffee.

Yeah, the work and things like it are offensive to society. It’s not for them. The only question that matters is, is it for you?

This just really shows how naive I have been, thinking that society is really looking for a solution.

Do you have a belief that what’s good for you will be good for others? Or that you should share solutions that work? Took me a long time to get over that one. Proselytising is a trap I still fall into sometimes.

YES, I do have that belief. This is just the worst for me. I’ll be reading something or listening to something or something will come to me, and before I can even have a chance to internalize it myself, I’m already going through my roladex thinking who needs to hear this. Forgetting that those people I’m imagining are parts of me 😂. I really believed (until a second ago) that I learn by teaching others. But I see that actually the thought of teaching others things I don’t really know or fully understand, (perhaps in order to appear as though I do), actually causes me a tremendous amount of stress and I get discouraged about my own ability to do the work myself and grow. It’s draining.

How about, when you see someone suffering, don’t mention the work at all, just do the work yourself on them and their suffering.

Gosh. It feels overwhelming and confusing. It seems clearer to focus on what I do know about why their suffering isn’t necessary. I see… And then ask if what I know is true…

“ExtraMedium, you hurt me.” “Oh yeah? Is it true?”

Oh yes, it’s weaponisable. Personally, when people accuse me of hurting them I leave them alone. That way I don’t have to be responsible for how they feel, and I’m no longer there as an apparent cause for their hurt. I’ve actually abandoned almost everyone in this way. Except those who would never blame me for how they feel.

I hear what you are saying but is there not room to apologise and see if you can help them see what your intentions were? What if you said something racist to or about someone in your past and they tell you now that it hurt them. It doesn’t feel loving to abandon that person. It feels like there is a responsibility to them.

Or, you know, just forcing people to look at turnarounds when they don’t even know what the hell I’m talking about.

Sometimes I say “I don’t believe you”. There’s a whole art to dealing with people who aren’t doing this work (or ACIM, Radical Honesty, Zen, wherever), that’s rarely discussed. But it’s all built on “don’t try to fix anyone else - do the work yourself”.

I say this as well! “It’s not that I think you’re wrong. But I don’t believe you.” I’ve been told it’s rude and had people get offended, but I’m saying I, me, in my mind, I don’t believe you. It’s not a judgement of you. It’s a statement about what I’m believing or choosing not to believe at this moment. I’m not saying it’s a reality you are separate from, it’s what is going on in my mind as it pertains to the situation.

Thank you very much for the discussion. I’m trying not to feel like I’m taking too much from you, but I see that you are helping yourself :)

Freyr replies:

But then how do you decide when it’s time to leave someone alone as you stated below.

I don’t make decisions. I’d have to be in Freyr’s business for that. And that’s just, too much work. Easier to just watch everything play out. It’s like a movie, in which I’m the star.

A ‘decision’ as you call it, is a conflict between two or more beliefs that are trying to push you in opposing directions. Do the work on them all.

they are stressed because of you

Is that true?


I empathise. I was once like you. Before I learned to love myself.

My definition of kindness and respect has evolved over the years. Here’s my current definition of respect:

The ultimate respect I can show anyone is to have such unshakable faith in them that I spare them no consideration.

That’s the kind of respect I want from you. It’s a bit esoteric. There are layers to it (it will mean different things to you depending on which unconscious beliefs you haven’t yet done the work on)

The world is divided in two groups: those who understand this Way, and those who do not (Buddha made this distinction between the ‘nobles’ and the ‘worldlings’). Guess which group is in the majority. To accept the Way, is to relinquish the whole world, not all at once necessarily. At first this seems like a terrible sacrifice, until we realise we are giving up nothing of value. For example, if you pretend to be different than you are in order for people to like you, you will never know if they actually do like you - you only ever know whether they like the person you were pretending to be. So you have actually gained nothing by pretense, and in fact have starved yourself of true intimacy. Giving up facade seems like a terrible sacrifice, but what happens is that those who liked your pretense leave, and those who saw through it stay, and then those who are with you, you know that they actually, genuinely like actual you. And there’s no longer any effort in pretending.

In my remaining relationships, I don’t do any uh, ‘work’ to maintain them. I don’t have to. We hang out because we enjoy each other’s company. Simple as that. No need to do anything special to please each other. We are already pleased.

Reading recommendations:

  1. I Need Your Love - Is That True? by Byron Katie
  2. Radical Honesty by Brad Blanton
  3. Complex PTSD: From Surviving to Thriving by Pete Walker

I hear what you are saying but is there not room to apologise

I gave up apologies a few years ago and haven’t looked back. Giving up expressions of gratitude has proven more challenging, but I’ll get there.

and see if you can help them see what your intentions were?

“They should see what my intentions were” - is that true?

it hurt them.

Is that true?

Can you absolutely know that it’s true?

etc.

It doesn’t feel loving to abandon that person.

“It’s not loving to abandon [person]” - is that true?

It feels like there is a responsibility to them.

“I am responsible for their healing” (many possible wordings for that belief) - is that true?

I’ve been told it’s rude and had people get offended

“My rudeness causes offence in others” - is it true?

I’m trying not to feel like I’m taking too much from you

“I’m taking too much from Freyr” - is that true? (each one of these is a suggestion to do The Work in full on it)

“I take too much” - is that true?

What fun.


I don’t really want to hear from you again.